1 Leave a comment on paragraph 1 0  

2 Leave a comment on paragraph 2 0 Comment to David Braden’s post in Living Systems

3 Leave a comment on paragraph 3 0 MATERIAL CYCLES. The creation, flow, reproduction, annihilation of “information” follows quite different laws than the flow of matter/energy. Innovation changes material flow patterns, sometime quite radically. “The Infinite Resource” by Ramez Naam makes a strong case for the power of innovation.  Information flows are not in closed loops. Human Systems are more than Living Systems (more than biological); although the term “living system” could be re-defined.

I propose a strong version: that with humans and written language, information is liberated from being embedded in matter/energy systems. A material substrate is needed, but the patterns of symbolism are independent of the substrate. I speculate this is a unique phenomenon in the cosmos, which fundamentally alters the nature of the “universe”. Material systems are also significant as scaffolding for information flows, and information flows are essential for the design of such material systems. I discuss this in my blog posts, NU GENESIS .

Information flows are essential for the propagation of closed loop technologies for material cycles. Cybernetics (primarily Second Order) is our first stab at comprehending this new reality domain. Learning II & III occur in the information domain. Learning I, although involving information, occurs without use of written languages – as it represents all learning in biological systems. A categorization model for learning that takes this difference into account would be more complex than Bateson’s three levels.

There is a variety of different “system thinkers”. Proper system thinking would necessarily include the dance of intimates, as “whole” systems must be studied. I agree that many systems thinkers have a top-down bias. My model for the success of UPLIFT it critically dependent on the flowing dance of intimates, supported and constrained by Bootstrap UPLIFT Scaffolding. BUS is a material system containing information and structured to seaf (support, enable, augment, facilitate) information flow. And, in cycles, BUS guides the galdee (growth, adaptation, learning, development, evolution, emergence) of BUS systems. BUS interfaces with the material world. UPLIFT is an attempt to integrate material and information flows.

In my conceptualizations and terminology, communities are the holon level for intimate dancing – as David states. This doesn’t distract or make less important the patterns of community-community interactions. Humankind has yet to innovate patterns for societies (systems of communities) where the communities are radically different – they all haven’t come from an original community reproducing similar communities [e.g., nations of tribes]. In the holon model, communities are the components of societies, not persons. In an “ideal” analogy, biological cells are analog for community and organelles are analog for the mini-holarchy (person/family/clan – with analog: bead molecule / chain molecule / molecular fabric).

But, it is much more complex when we leave the “ideal” nested hierarchy (holarchy) and infuse/embed them with networks. Holons can be members of both holarchies and networks – a model I label “ecology”. At this level it becomes clearer that “systems” are constructs human impose to help organized their experiences. What is “objectively out there” can be “more than” what fits our constructs.

One Responses

  • An earlier comment to the same blog post by David Braden, on INTIMATE DANCE.
    Time now for only brief comment. Bateson’s mind is not well represented
    by his limited writings. He has much more yet to give. He is at the top
    of my list of persons I wish I had personally known.
    Recently I have been re-examining AGENCY & STRUCTURE. Read the article linked to my blog post: http://nuet.us/2015/02/01/lack-of-knowledge-application-example-leadership/
    . The UNIT for attention, Organism+Environment, takes on a new twist
    when we realize that each of us incorporates ALL of our relevant
    developmental environments (physical, biological, OTHERS) into
    don’t consciously, and with intention, create themselves; a very
    dangerous myth. Our personal agency CONTRIBUTES to who we become, but is
    not the primary determinant. Our brains are programmed to function as
    world-weavers. Sequential moments are continually integrated (Piaget’s
    Assimilation and Accommodation). Most Stimulus/Response is highly
    deterministic (based on who we are at the moment of stimulus). Our
    agency lies in accommodation, when we change, holistically (not ego
    caused), NOT in response to stimulation. This is where our CREATIVE
    AGENCY lies.
    Person/World bond is not between biological organism and objective
    environment – but within each organism in terms of the internalization
    of their life-long nurturing environment into their “constructed” inner
    world. I have named mine: “nuet”.
    current human conception of individualism is a powerful delusion. I am
    not demoting humans to mere mechanistic components of a bigger machine. I
    grok that when we come to terms with our “truer” nature we will
    discover the awesome significance of our creative agency.
    is also one of my potent metaphors: creative flow within accepted
    constraints. The music at the time. The scaffolding that
    enables/constrains our movements. Dancing in zero gravity within a
    massive jungle gym – is a fantasy. How we have learned to move.
    is the metaphor for my conceptual schemes of UPLIFT and the “dance
    system” BUS – Bootstrap UPLIFT Scaffolding. The scaffolding is
    designed/constructed using engineering principles. Humans flow/dance
    within these scaffolding. “flow” re Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi). Part of
    their dance is “scripting”, creating new scaffolding. This whole
    process, Scripting/Performing Cycles, applies a higher learning
    (Bateson) level.
    3 of Bateson is Learning-to-Learn-to-Learn. My SSS model reflects these
    three: Viable SEEDS, Fertile SOILS, Nurturing SCAFFOLDING. Our
    challenge is to move our activity from “composing seeds about soils and
    scaffolding” to constructing/implementing STRATEGIES to create/construct
    the STRUCTURES that manifest our SOILS and SCAFFOLDING.
    This is what I have been trying to share with you. LOCALIZATION and
    FLOWS are powerful conceptual seeds. What are the SOILS and SCAFFOLDING
    needing to be CONSTRUCTED (not only talked about)? What do we need to
    do (differently) to actually WORK at levels II and III of Bateson? (a
    have tentatively concluded that a single human mind/brain lacks the
    requisite competencies to engage this query. I am as much trapped in the
    “individualism” metaphor as anyone; it is part of our biology. What nu
    STRUCTURES do we need, NOW, to seaf our flows?
    was NOT BRIEF !!!!! My rut/routine is to respond to exciting
    stimulation and avoid CONSTRUCTING STRATEGIES. I have no sense of how
    this mind/soar will be experienced. Thanks you, DAVID.


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